juliet | Tech query

Tech query

A conversation elsewhere on LJ reminded me that I've been meaning to sort out an external HDD for my laptop (for backup purposes). I had a couple of questions which some of you may be able to assist with...

1) Is there anywhere other than Dabs I can get this kit easily? (Expansys don't seem to do the right things)

2) Is it safe to assume that a USB drive will come with cable attached?

3) If I have a 60GB disk, is it sensible to get 80GB, or should I go for more, in a future-proofing sort of way?

4) I want USB (so I could use it with the PC as well), but is it worth paying for a drive that also has Firewire - can anyone tell me how much the speed difference is in practice from a Powerbook?

Am considering (in price order):
LaCie 80GB USB2 - needs power cable, which is a nuisance; states that it includes cable
Maxtor One-Touch 80GB USB2 - doesn't have specs so no idea about power cable; has this 'one touch' thing where you just hit a button & it Works Magically. Unconvinced it's worth an extra £12, though.
LaCie mobile 60GB USB2 - no power cable needed, easy to cart around.
CrossFire 160GB USB2 & FireWire - doesn't say it needs a power cable, though it might.

All opinion/comment appreciated...

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I recently did this for my new powerbook. I bought a 25quid USB2 case and a cheap second hand 3.2inch drive from a colleague. LaCie do some software which backs up MacOSX. (Case was from Morgan's on New Oxford Street)

my cheap case came with a USB cable and a power cable. I think that you probably wont find a good one without external power - you will be drawing a lot through the USB cable and that may or may not work.

I just keep an image of my laptop hard disk so it just has to be at least the same size. Of course if you are doing something like rsync and using the backup software to keep a large number of incremental backups then you might want more disk space than your laptop.

LaCie's backup software is free I think. They make their money selling hard disks :-)

I think that you probably wont find a good one without external power - you will be drawing a lot through the USB cable and that may or may not work.

Seconded, plus I've heard reports of drives without their own power supplies not always being able to sustain the higher transfer rates.

We use 160G and 80G LaCie drives here, and they've so far worked without a hitch (although FreeBSD and USB 2 have ... issues).

PS The reason why I am happy with my 60Gb external drive is because the software I use just creates a duplicate of my powerbook drive. I guess that more expensive software may be able to use the drive as spare storage *and* a backup device.

I got a maxtor drive from dabs (but a bigger 200gb one with all the interfaces). Seems to work, came with USB & firewire cables & power supply.

Works nicely with the Mac, not looked into the backup software yet.

The Apple Store have a reasonable selection on display to peer at, although the prices are ridiculous so don't buy there.

What sort of portable music player do you have? Things like iRivers do both, though I don't know if you'd get the storage capacity you want.

I use my Treo - can't really justify the cost of a separate portable music thingy (though if the iPod shuffle had existed when I bought my SD card & reader, I might have considered it... still, there are advantages to having everything on a single device, even if I do still have to remember headphones!). So anyway: only 500MB, no good :-)

If you feel like slumming it, Morgan Computer on New Oxford Street often have end-of-line external HDDs - also HDDs and cases sold separately. I bought a USB-powered 2.5" HDD case there to try to get at the HDD from my shattered laptop - it didn't work, but that may well have been the hard disc - if it wasn't broken before I pulled it out of the laptop, I think it probably was by the time I'd yanked it out and put it in the wrong way a couple of times. I also have a 160GB LaCie Porsche mains-powered external HDD for backup, which I got from Savastore and which works fine. The Crossfire is pretty much certain to be mains powered at that capacity and that price, I think, and the Maxtor One-Touch are mains-powered also, I think.

On USB/Firewire - depends how old your Powerbook is, I think. Firewire is a lot faster than USB1.1, but Firewire and USB2 are both plenty fast... no practical experience with Macs, though.

Span (http://www.span.com/) have a number available and you can spec out the sizes yourself. They have ones suitable for the desktop (http://www.span.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=20_32) and laptop (http://www.span.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=20_33). They do both USB, FireWire and USB/FireWire versions. AFAIR FireWire connected drives often doesn't need an external power lead as FireWire can provide way more power than USB can.

Firewire drives that are 2.5" (laptop disks in a box) don't need external power, 3.5" drives (which are cheaper) do.

I just got a couple of drives, firewire only 80Gb slimline drive (a FireLite drive) for portability (it doesn't need external power so I can use it with the powerbook to do backups with no external power source) and a venus ds3 3.5" case that does both firewire 400 and usb2 and requires a powerbrick, which I then put a 250Gb disk in. The two cost about the same (~ US$200). If you're looking for cheaper then "what hatter said", basicly.

You might want to pick up a FireWire 800 case but generally I find 400 is enough.

_nicolai_ is over here at the moment, where consumer electronics are cheaper. If you ask him nicely he might have import tax allowance left to import you something for cheap...

I'd also suggest buying the case and drive separately, scan(.co.uk) would be my first choice, or take a trip to the TCR computer fair. An external usb enclosure is about 20ukp, and you can get an 80gb 3.5" disk for 40ukp, which makes it about the same price as buying pre-assembled, but you can get 120gb for 50ukp, or 200gb for 60ukp. The lacie mobile 60gb seems to be the only one using a 2.5" disk, if you want the smaller box to carry around, then you can get separate 2.5" cases and drives instead, they're more expensive than 3.5", but again less expensive than buying pre-assembled.

Don't forget that you also have several friends who can probably donate a 3.5" 80gb drive for a few beers, which would make buying separates even more attractive.

More capacity means that you could sensibly back up more than one machine to it, or that you can use it to carry around non-essential data (like leave most of your mp3s/videos/old projects on the external unit) although this obviously compromises some of the backup features.

the hatter

Ooh, Scan look good. (can get 80GB USB+FW for under 60 quid, which is more like my price range :-) ). Thanks!

Also, having a separate enclosure would mean that should I later decide that I need MORE STORAGE, I can switch drives in & out of the enclosure, no?

An extra 20GB above my laptop's capacity should be plenty extra for the foreseeable - currently I have only 18GB of 56GB used, so there's a fair way to go yet before I run into capacity problems :-)

Yeah, although you can probably upgrade the premade ones, they can be a bit harder work, whereas the ones sold that way are designed to be easier to get apart. You know where to find me if you can't source a spare drive closer to home.

the hatter

TBH I intend to just buy one; trying to get a spare off someone means organisational hassle, mostly (& given that I've been meaning to sort this out for *months*, giving myself the minimum available hassle seems wise :-) ) But thanks!

I second the suggestion of building your own though. The enclosures are really cheap, and so are harddrives for that matter. ANd then you can decide exactly what size/speed/quality etc that you want..

ebuyer.co.uk is v.cheap and has good service too btw (cheaper than dabs at least)

Hard drives are cheap, so long as you're looking at 3½" desktop-style drives. If you're looking at 2½" laptop-style drives, which some of the enclosures need, then they aren't so cheap at all. They also tend to run slower as well, mainly to reduce their heat output and power consumption.

Travis, my external HD, is an 80GB Freecom Classic that I got from Dixons - just walked in off the street and picked one up. It comes with USB cable (2.0) and power supply, and whilst not the cheapest on the market it is pretty small and quiet but very reliable. Rather than lug Servalan with me all the way to Wales, I just slip Travis in my luggage instead.

1) Is there anywhere other than Dabs I can get this kit easily? (Expansys don't seem to do the right things)

Yes. Try CCL in Bradford, or Aria in Manchester. Both do mail order, and both are very reasonably priced.

2) Is it safe to assume that a USB drive will come with cable attached?

Yes, if you're buying new.

3) If I have a 60GB disk, is it sensible to get 80GB, or should I go for more, in a future-proofing sort of way?

It's more sensible to go for 120 GB, given the current rates.

4) I want USB (so I could use it with the PC as well), but is it worth paying for a drive that also has Firewire - can anyone tell me how much the speed difference is in practice from a Powerbook?

If you're using OS9.x the difference will be significant. If you're using OS X, much less so, though I've found FireWire is a damned sight more reliable than USB when it comes to copying.

BTW - you'd be best off getting a cheap USB-2 case and a regular hard drive (and it so happens that I have a spare case, with cable and PSU, standing idle at the moment if you're interested)

Just to cover some stuff other people haven't touched on:

Speed
USB 1.1 is 100Mbits/s
Firewire 400 is 400Mbits/s
USB 2.0 is 400Mbits/s
Firewire 800 is 800Mbits/s

A combo drive (Firewire and USB 2.0) might be best as it'll give you the best of both worlds as will still work with USB 1.1 enabled machines.

Power
If you are looking at a portable device (ie. one based around a laptop hard drive), they can usually be powered from either the USB or Firewire port. Some do come with external power supplies (or cables to plug into a PS/2 keyboard socket) but they are usually there as a 'just in case'. The only time the drive won't be able to draw power from the port is if it's connected to the smaller 4 pin Firewire port as these don't have power lines. The drive case I bought came with a USB -> power socket cable for just this purpose.

If you are looking at a desktop drive (ie. based around a standard 3.5" drive) then these will all come with power supplies as neither USB or Firewire can supply enough power to power the drive.

Shout if you need more info.

Neil.

If you look in the Apple store in Regent Street, they have a whole load of external hard drives, upstairs. They are out on display so you can have a good look at them, and some of them have USB and Firewire interfaces, some need no power cable. They even go up to 1000 GB!

You're bound to find a suitable one there if you haven't already got one.

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