Interesting things

[juliet]

• A Drug War Carol
• Birth month can affect health

Apparently an anti-knife-crime group want minimum 6 month jail sentences for adults caught with a blade less than 3 in (5 years for >3"). My immediate query was whether this would be intended to outlaw a standard penknife? (for reference, this appears to be a reasonably well-referenced summary of the current UK situation - it is OK to carry any non-locking folding knife under 3" on a daily basis; other knifes (e.g. locking knifes) are illegal unless you have 'good reason' to carry them) This would seem somewhat OTT (I admit that I may be biased - I've been carrying a penknife on a daily basis since I was a teenager).

Comments

[karen2205]

I have a pen knife I carry round with me too - it's never occured to me that there might be a problem with carrying it. It's just useful (inpropmtu snacks on trains/unjamming staplers etc).

I wonder where things like craft knives, rotary cutters and Stanley knives come...(far too tired/not with it to try and look this stuff up right now).

[juliet]

Stanley knives & craft knives are either locking or fixed (or at least, all the ones I've encountered are). Don't know how rotary cutters work. Note that if you have a good reason it's OK to carry it - so if, say, you were on the way to a l.crafts meeting & had a craft knife, that'd be fine (or, similarly, it's OK for my Dad to cart his Stanley knife, & various other tools, backwards & forwards to our place cos he's doing kitchen-construction).

Anyway, as the law stands your penknife is fine - & there's absolutely no indication that the government intend to change that (it's just this pressure group who are being a bit excessive).

[juliet]

Yep (assuming yr Victorinox is < 3" & non-locking - I've just looked at their website & discovered that they do do locking blades on their 'pocket tool' range, but I'm guessing you just have a standard pocket-knife). More accurately: it's fine to own the Opinel, but not to carry on a daily basis, unless you have a good (presumably, a specific reason, not just "it's useful", although that would be for a court to decide) reason for carrying it. Up to you whether you want to be a test case, or think that it's worth the risk of carrying with you :-)

Having just looked up Opinel: *pretty*. Which one do you have?

The link above references the court cases that are precedent for the locking knives issue:

"Until the court cases of Harris (1993) and Deegan (1998), a three inch blade locking folding knife was considered legal to carry.

"Unfortunately in these two cases it was held that a knife that could not be closed without releasing a lock was in law a fixed blade knife and hence illegal to carry. Those of you who visit www.britishblades.com will know that it is this question of lock knives that we are just a little obsessive about. There isn't really any way around this restriction however."

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

This does strike me as a bad law. Too much rests on whether or not the carrier has a reason to have the knife, of which there must be multitudes. I wonder how many convictions are obtained each year for carrying under the current situation.

that birth month study

[(Anonymous)]

I actually went to a seminar given by George Ebers on the birth-month and MS stuff (given that my job title is "MS Research Co-ordinator"...). The effect does all the things you'd expect, including flipping in the southern hemisphere, and being less significant the closer you are to the equator. It's already well-known that MS is more prevalent the further you are from the equator in the first 20-odd years of your life (even though it doesn't occur until considerably after that), so this is quite interesting.

--
Richard Lanyon

[juliet]

The current law is bad, or the suggested change (which, note, the govmt are not in any way considering, as far as I can tell, owing as how they're not insane) is bad?

I don't think the current law is that bad, with the possible exception of the precedent-decision re locking knives. A hell of a lot of UK law rests on the decision/discretion of the court - and, in general, on precedent. The other alternative would be an exhaustive list of reasons why it might be OK to carry a knife (what about kitchen knives? DIY tools? outdoor-pursuits stuff (what they seem to call 'bushcraft' there)? under what circumstances?) which seems to me to be a worse idea.

[wechsler.livejournal.com]

From what I can gather this group really does want to outlaw anything sharp, so yes, penknives will be banned.

The recent excitement did prompt me to check the blade on my leatherman, which usually lives on my belt; it's a touch under 3".

[fluffymormegil.livejournal.com]

People like these give weapon control advocates a bad name.
And, indeed, are making me increasingly inclined towards campaigning for the introduction of (heavily vetted, of course) concealed weapon licences.

[boyofbadgers.livejournal.com]

The suggested change. Having such a substantial minimum jail sentence when the illegality or not of the possession is so wide open to interpretation is what worries me. The last sentence was idle curiousity.

[juliet]

Yes, well, the group in question do appear to be a bit barking.

[arkady.livejournal.com]

According to that birth-month study, I have the fact I was born this month to blame for being a short-arse! Just think - if I'd been born in July instead, how much taller would I have been??

(Answer: not a whole lot, because whilst my father is 6', my mother is 4' 10". So we're only talking a matter of inches really.)

[arkady.livejournal.com]

The current fuss on the subject tempts me to buy myself a leatherman or Victorinox with a blade that is precisely 3". ;-)

[dogrando.livejournal.com]

The spokesperson for the group campaigning for knife control kinda lost my respect when he called for a vote of no confidence in the govt if they didn't pass his law. Yeah, right. Whatever.

[ciphergoth.livejournal.com]

All mandatory sentencing laws are bad laws.

[wintrmute.livejournal.com]

I think Leathermans (and other similar utilities) specifically make their blades slightly under those limits.

The thing is, though - they're a locking blade, which would seem to make them illegal.

[wechsler.livejournal.com]

Eh? Leathermans (-men)? don't lock, it's just a swiss-army mechanism.
Unless you count the way the handle folds back to cover the blade's housing, but if you tried to push the point into anything it'd still fold.

[wintrmute.livejournal.com]

Oh, really? I've used some leatherman's that do - there's a kind of notch on the handle that you push in before the blade will swing back in.

My Gerber has something similar - once the blade is out, it won't go back until you unlock it.

[alexmc.livejournal.com]

mine locks.

[uon.livejournal.com]

My Wave locks: I normally have to warn about this if I lend it out, since a couple of people have cut themselves trying to unlock the blade before handing it back — the mechanism can be a bit stiff and fiddly.

I carry it pretty much all the time. I presume "It's useful, and I hate getting caught without it" wouldn't be a sufficiently good defence..

[mstevens.livejournal.com]

I have vague memories of an article demonstrating that "good reason" was being extremely distorted in actual cases, I don't remember the details, I think it was someone who needed knives for work, with the knives in his car either going to or from work, and got convicted for it.