Environmental clutter

[juliet]

I am a great believer in Not Hanging Onto Stuff (or at least, not hanging onto too much stuff). The "it might come in handy" mentality is a recipe for winding up with cupboards full of crap, unable to find the things you *do* want. And living with *stuff* all over the place is stressful, at least for me. If it turns out that X years down the line I need whateveritwas, I can get another one.

The flipside to this is the environmental one. If I get rid of things because they don't have an obvious/immediate/probable use, isn't that wasteful? I do my best to get rid of things responsibly (charity shop, Freecycle); but nevertheless, if I wind up needing X, and buying a new X, then that's wasteful consumption.

Buying a second-hand X in that event is one solution (although not always practical). And there are some things that I will hang on to (extension leads being one; also bits of wood, especially now we have the allotment). But there's a lot of stuff that could be repurposed, as and when something comes up - should I hang on to all of it, as a grown-up version of the "stuff to make things with" box that parents sometimes keep for tinies?

Currently I think the Not Hanging Onto Stuff is still winning; but I am starting to think a bit harder about this of late.

(Of course, my consumption in general is a bit high, which is a whole 'nother matter; maybe I should think about that harder first. I am a rubbish hippy :-/ )

Comments

[thekumquat.livejournal.com]

*Your* consumption is high?
You're a vegan cycling non-car owning allotment owner - that's got to be pretty low consumption by this country's standards. Unless you've got a secret vice I've never noticed.

I'm trying to follow the rule my dad set recently, of getting rid of anything not used in 2 (well maybe 5) years, unless it's *really* difficult to replace. Or has real sentimental value. Or something.

Then there's how to get rid of stuff - need to take and upload lots of photos after returning from holiday, as there's quite a bit of stuff I'd like to get some cash for. I hate clutter hanging around - but having DIY stuff and bits of computer so that new stuff and computers aren't needed does take up a lot of space.

[juliet]

My secret vice: bike kit :-)

Consumer electronics, also (about to get new work laptop as this one is chugging slowly to a halt; forked out for Treo680 recently...). And fabric/yarn/etc. Books. I don't buy many CDs (but only because P does, which is kind of cheating). By UK standards, yes, I'm pretty low-consumption, but UK standards are pretty horrendous!

I try to do the "not used in 2 years" thing, as well (with a couple of exceptions). I find Freecycle easier than Ebay for getting rid of stuff because it is so much less hassle - don't have to deal with posting & cash & so forth.

[thekumquat.livejournal.com]

I do reduce my standards of what I'd like to sell - anything worth less than say £25 goes to a charity shop and I get to feel virtuous for not being bothered to stick it on Ebay...

I've found LJcycle ("Anyone want my X?") and Pavementcycle (stick item on street with a post-it note saying 'Take me!') particularly low-hassle and effective. I was most impressed when a hideous bashed melamine wardrobe vanished.

My vices would be books (about 1/2 secondhand), travel (1-2 flights/year) and bits for doing up the house. On the other hand, the house needs repair (it's mainly repair not just cosmetic) and it's slowly getting more energy efficient.

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

I tend not to hang onto stuff either.

If I were the sort of person who made jam, papier mache and my own macrame Christmas ornaments from left-over packing twine, I'd probably hang on to stuff more. But I'm not that sort of person - I'd rather curl up with a good book than roll my own tampons, thanks.

But then again I'm big on reducing. I avoid buying things which are over-packaged, and using carrier bags. I don't buy consumer electronics much - my existing stereo has been on the blink for a year but will still play CDs if I jiggle the switch and thump it just right, so I don't see much need to get another one. So I don't have all that much to throw out.

I'm with William Morris, really. I don't want anything in my life that I do not know to be useful nor believe to be beautiful. Anything else... is just rubbish.

I still have more Stuff than I really need, of course - I don't exactly live a pared-down life. But it's all Stuff I Love.

I'm curious - what do you throw away that you might need later?

[juliet]

I can't think of any good examples right now! It's just something I've been thinking about generally - the two principles seem to be in conflict. (Clothes is one thing, actually - occasional weight fluctuations lead to clothes not fitting & then you get rid of them & then a couple of years later they would fit again. I'm not hanging onto 2/3 wardrobes of clothes for that reason, though!).

I do make jam, & I do keep jam-jars :-)

I've been increasingly aware of food packaging, & throwing that away - we don't get *that* much in packages, but there's only so many margarine tubs that can be put to good use :-/

[valkyriekaren.livejournal.com]

I don't keep clothes I no longer fit into, as it simply depresses me. I have no control over my weight, it seems - no matter how healthily I eat, it makes no difference. The exception is clothes that have sentimental value - there's one gorgeous velvet and chiffon dress in my wardrobe that is so perfect, and made me feel like a film-star, but which I've not fitted into since about 2001.

Books are the one thing I never get rid of. But then I don't believe I should - being surrounded by books is something that makes me feel safe and comforted. Plus I keep hoping I'll one day be rich enough to have a house with a dedicated library.

[weatherpixie.livejournal.com]

I tend to keep things with snap top lids for putting screws/beads/other small easily lost things in, and I'll admit I will often choose product X over product Y because the container is more useful - does that count as recycling?

[juliet]

Definitely!

[mrs-leroy-brown.livejournal.com]

You are NOT a rubbish hippy! But yes, I share your keeping stuff angst, or not knowing when to replace stuff. My problem is when to keep something to 'make do and mend' and when to chuck it. I feel guilty because I binned a broken rucksack recently. This is also why I've had the same winter coat for about 6 years now, even though it is falling a bit to bits it still essentially keeps me warm.

sorry, not very helpful. how do you stand on second hand books? cos that's where most of mine have been coming from lately,charity shops that is, and that's good obv but also means fewer royalties for the author. ARGH MORAL QUANDRY.

[juliet]

Criterion for keeping things like coats/bags: do they still do the job satisfactorily? So I got a new bike pannier when the old one developed an 'ole & a broken strap (after >4 yrs daily use, so not too shabby!) - it's going to uon for use for shopping trips, as it'll do for occasional use, just not for daily commuting use. Similarly, my old coat I finally ditched (although, er, actually still have it hanging up because I am convinced that I should be able to think of something to do with the material!) because it *wasn't* keeping me warm properly due to a) thinness of material, & b) wouldn't do up at the front at all (buttons all buggered & front ripped so couldn't sew them back on).

Second-hand books: that is also my dilemma! I think it is OK though to just keep doing the charity shop thing. Also libraries, cos then they do get royalties :-)

[booklectica]

I'm a natural hoarder and I rather wish I wasn't, as our house is indeed very full of stuff. I hate throwing things that might be useful away. Unfortunately I never get round to doing anything useful with them either, so it just ends up being Stuff. Definitely a problem.

[abi]

I hate Stuff too. My secret is to ensure I am friends with plenty of hoarders, so that I don't need to own X because I know I can borrow one off A or B. This really does work. :-)

[catsgomiaow.livejournal.com]

Oh MAANNN books and CDs. I am steeling myself to get rid of a crate more of each (tho I got rid of an awful lot before I moved, I have been Buying Again). Also, clothes. And shoes. And kitchen stuff! I thought I'd done so well before moving but my stuff is BURSTING out of my tiny room and kitchen cupboards (also Paul has some of my kitchen stuff in the boot of his car, the SHAME)

The thing is, I need at least a week off to go through it all PROPERLY, read all the books, listen to all the CDs. But I ain't gonna get that week any time soon :(

(am deffo going to join the local library tho!)

[catsgomiaow.livejournal.com]

Also, packaging. I've been letting myself down lately by buying pre-packaged sangers etc for lunch, when I should just be a little less lazy and make my own. The thing is that my guilt about this extends to soya milk cartons and the like - would it be better to get my own soyamilk maker? But this is ANOTHER GADGET and I don't have room etc. Perhaps even the breadmaker is a Gadget Too Far (I do love it tho). I should check out that tetrapak recycling place; the thing is that I think my flatmate would kill me if I put ANOTHER box of stuff/recycling in the crowded kitchen :(

(Tho I do look at my flatmate - who I am CONVINCED fills a landfill of her own every other week - and feel just a *little* bit smug... but NO. MUST DO BETTER esp since our local shops are excellent for buying loose fruit and veg from :))

[juliet]

I have found that making lunch the night before is less hassle/less difficult than doing so in the morning. Sandwiches don't seem to suffer in the fridge.

Re soyamilk: I know what you mean, but I have concluded that at least for the moment I'll carry on with buying the stuff (see also: OJ).

I really must write to the council about including tetrapaks in the recycling - now that Southwark take everything in one big bag recycling is easier, & if they took tetrapaks too I wd be v happy.

Books/CDs - if you haven't got around to reading/listening to them yet, is it maybe a Sign that you won't, & you should just get rid of 'em & feel the weight of OUGHT TO DO X lift off? :-)

[j4.livejournal.com]

I have quite a high turnover of books, CDs and clothes. I'm trying to be better about getting rid of stuff I don't need, because stuff-I-don't-need => stress => less efficiency overall (even if it's just "I'm less likely to do X because I had to tidy up more crap at home", knock-on effects, etc.)

I don't think buying things is bad per se (I buy most of them from charity shops). I've got a fair amount of spare cash at the moment, and I don't spend more than I can afford.

I don't really see what's being wasted if I buy stuff and then sell it or give it away again (and then buy more stuff later), apart from possibly people's time: if I sell things on, I earn a small amount of money and somebody else gets something that they might otherwise have bought new; if I freecycle things, as before but without me getting money; if I give them to a charity shop, then either a) the charity gets money, or b) they probably have more efficient ways of recycling stuff-they-can't-sell than I do.

Are you saying that it's somehow morally/socially/economically/environmentally wrong to buy/sell (or even acquire??) stuff, no matter where the stuff comes from and what happens to the stuff and/or money afterwards?

[juliet]

Hm. I think what concerns me is to do with the mentality of acquisition - the Must Have More Things (in particular, New Things) attitude. I don't think that surrounding oneself with Stuff is good for the mental state; and the constant acquisition of *new* things in particular is in general not going to be environmentally sound.

Taking part in a passing-things-around economy is, I think, OK (whether that's cash-based or not). There are some things that are maybe more suited to this than others - books & clothes, CDs/DVDs. Electronic stuff (one of my vices :-/ ) is less suited to this because of the rate of technological progress; and they're also environmentally expensive.

I think that it is the acquisition of New Things that concerns me more. e.g. I don't really *need* more clothes. So I'm trying to make more of my own stuff - which in some cases means buying fabric (& I'm not actually sure that's all that much better, although at least it's *slower*!), but I'd like to start thinking more about remaking second-hand stuff. (This is however harder IME than starting from scratch!). But in that case, should I hang onto old clothes that don't fit in order to do something with them later? Or should I pass 'em on to the charity or whatever?

A passing-things-around culture is a good thing & to be encouraged, I think :-) As nou says, if you generate this sort of situation then it's more likely that you *can* get rid of X safely (via the appropriate method of passing-on), because there'll be another X floating around when you need it.

[katstevens.livejournal.com]

I would be a hoarder if I didn't keep myself in check! I threw away so much junk before I moved though, mostly stuff I thought had sentimental value but was actually Just Rubbish. I did keep the broken Chairman Mao lighter that plays an awful birthday-card-esque atonal noise when you flick it EVEN THOUGH I quit smoking and it DOESN'T WORK, but it's just so awesome... But yes, I Scope-binned 3 sacks of clothes & shoes and left behind my digital box & router for my housemates (as Rick already had perfectly good ones). I felt terribly guilty about chucking away a load of old CDR promos though. Why Oh Why is there not a CD recycling facility?

I've got a lot better recently at the not-using-carrier bags thing (my Glasto yoghurt bag has come in very useful indeed) and buying loose veg where possible etc. And we have Proper Recycling round our way that takes all sorts of shiznit, incl batteries and my rubbish old army coat. Hooray!

[thekumquat.livejournal.com]

CDs can be recycled - places that collect them include most central government buildings and various other workplaces. My work has 3 bins near the entrance for CDs, mobiles+accessories, and dead batteries.

When I worked in RealHippyEnviroStuff I kept being given free 'environmentally friendly' cloth bags at events. I need to try dyeing them to hide the hideous branding and then I/friends might actually use them!

[juliet]

Unless the branding is *really* hideous, if you want rid of 'em I could use them!

I didn't know you could recycle CDs. That is v useful to know; thanks!

[kake]

We need to have another book/craft/whatnot swap — poke me and make me organise one.

The more people who make a habit of Getting Rid Of Stuff responsibly (freecycle/bookswaps/etc), the more likely it is that the Thing you need is available when you need it.

[karen2205]

But there's a lot of stuff that could be repurposed, as and when something comes up - should I hang on to all of it, as a grown-up version of the "stuff to make things with" box that parents sometimes keep for tinies?

What sort of space have you got for keeping stuff that you don't immediately need? I'd say it's worthwhile keeping things that are multi-purpose eg. bits of wood, screws, nails etc that don't take up much space and could be used for more than one job, if you've got the space to do it, without having so much stuff about it's distressing. If not, I don't think it's unethical to get rid of stuff responsibly and then buy what you need when you need it.

I'm hopeless at getting rid of stuff. I'm getting better at 'archiving' stuff - like clothes into vacuum packed bags so that I can say 'well it's been in that bag for x length of time and I haven't wanted any of it/it doesn't fit' so it's time to get rid of it.

I feel guilty about getting rid of useful things - I have a pile of tea lights and matches lying about - a certain number of these I might use in a power-cut, but they're basically intended as a teaching Guides how to light a candle tool. I look at empty coffee jars and think 'there must be something useful I can do with this' then come up with nothing and throw them out anyway [can't recycle glass in our recycling bins]. I have a particularly difficult time getting rid of things that were given to me as gifts.